I’m going to to pick up today where I left off last week, talking about the Corey Kanosh story. And as you can probably guess, I’ve got a lot of questions.
We live in a day when government agencies and public bodies claim increasing transparency. But during my investigation I’ve learned that despite that prevailing platitude, Millard County sought and received a protective order which the county claims prevents it from disclosing any information regarding Corey’s case. So that right there can’t help but trigger all kinds of questions. For instance, what is MCSD trying to hide? Why is MCSD determined to keep the public in the dark? What facts and details are we not supposed to learn?
We know part of the story based on what Corey’s family has said. As you will recall, on October 15, 2012, Corey and his friend Dana Harnes had been drinking at home on the Kanosh Paiute Band Reservation, and wanted to go to Corn Creek Canyon. They couldn’t take Corey’s sister Marlee’s car because she needed it. So they borrowed his mother Marlene’s car. Because Ms. Marlene Pikyavit is a good mother and a responsible person, she was concerned about their safety, as well as the safety of other people and motorists in the area. So she called the Millard County Sheriff’s Department, to alert them to the situation and encourage them to watch out for Corey and Dana. As a mother, she thought she was doing the right thing — trying to look out for the safety and well-being of her children and everyone else who might be involved. In hindsight, Ms. Pikyavit now has to face every day with the thought that she made that oh-so regrettable 9-1-1 call — the call that she would never make again if she had the chance to do things over.
Now the questions really start to pile up. First off, exactly what did Marlene Pikyavit say to the 9-1-1 operator? According to her, she just asked to have officers keep an eye out for Corey and Dana, and to try to get them off the road. She wasn’t necessarily even that concerned about her car. In response to her phone call, Officer Mike Peacock came to her house to get more information. She repeated her concerns, and asked him to keep an eye out for Corey and Dana. She said that although she wanted to get them off the road, she wasn’t really concerned about the car, but she didn’t want to see it get impounded. She said Officer Peacock seemed to understand, and acted like that is what he would try to accomplish.
One of the things Marlene Pikyavit wants to know at this point, and so do I, is how it went from one local officer who was keeping an eye out for her car, to an all-out man hunt for her son Corey? What if another white Mormon mother from Kanosh Town had called with concerns about her son or daughter drinking and taking the family car? Would it have turned into an all-out man hunt? Or would the officer have simply kept his eye out for the car, and helped the occupants get home safely, maybe without anyone else even knowing about it? How would the whole thing have turned out if it had been someone else?
But how many law enforcement officers got involved simply because it was Corey Kanosh, a young Native American man, with a history? In addition to Officer Peacock, among the other officers who were summoned to participate in the manhunt were Officer Dale Josse, who was called in from his patrol on the west side of the county, and Sgt. Scott Corry, as well as sheriff’s posse personnel.
From what I understand, an officer is supposed to have probable cause to make an arrest. Wikipedia’s definition of “probable cause” isn’t necessarily what they’d use in state or federal court, but it’s close. It says probable cause is “where the facts and circumstances within the officers’ knowledge, and of which they have reasonably trustworthy information, are sufficient in themselves to warrant a belief by a man of reasonable caution that a crime has been committed, and that the person in question committed it.” What, if anything, did Ms. Pikyavit say that would have provided probable cause to make an arrest? Was there probable cause for DUI? Anything else? One thing we do know is that it was Dana, rather than Corey, who was driving. So who was the suspect? Who was the person in question, suspected of committing a crime?
It was Officer Josse who, later in the evening, finally spotted the car near the town of Kanosh. As he sought to pursue it, the car headed back to the reservation. At some point, the vehicles passed each other and Officer Josse clearly saw that Dana was driving and Corey was in the passenger seat. The car headed toward the reservation cemetery, and then off road into the surrounding foothills, where it became high centered on big rocks. As Officer Josse approached the vehicle, Corey exited and ran into the hills.
Let’s stop right here and ask some more questions. What was MCSD trying to accomplish? What were its law enforcement objectives? Were the officers involved, like Ms. Pikyavit, trying to get the car off the road to ensure the safety of everyone involved? At that point, wasn’t it basically “primary mission accomplished?” Or were they determined to arrest someone? If so, whom were they seeking to arrest, and on what basis? What, if anything, was the probable cause? If there was a reasonable belief that a crime had been committed and the person in question had committed it, what was the crime, and who was the person in question?
When Corey fled into the hills on foot, Officer Josse chose to follow him, leaving Dana and the car behind. Why did he choose to chase Corey? Was Corey endangering anyone? If so, who? Was he endangering Officer Josse? If so, how? What was the purpose of pursuing Corey into the hills? What was the reason for trying to arrest him? Why would Officer Josse attempt to do this alone? Where did Officer Josse think Corey would go? What did he think he would do? Did he think that he would disappear into the wilderness, like Claude Dallas, for the next 20 years? And if that’s exactly what Corey planned, what crime was he wanted for at that point?
The questions become even harder once Officer Josse caught up to Corey. What was Corey doing when the deputy arrived? From what I understand, Corey had tripped and fallen on the ground, and was just lying there trying to catch his breath. So what happened then? Did Corey get up and attack Officer Josse, or did Officer Josse attack him? Who was the aggressor? If Officer Josse attacked Corey, why? How did the fighting begin? What was Officer Josse trying to accomplish when he caught up with Corey? Was Officer Josse attempting to arrest him? For what?
From what I understand, Corey was completely unarmed, though there may be a question about that. Specifically, he may have been running, at least for awhile, with a case of beer. No wonder Officer Josse caught up to him. So he may have been armed with a case of beer, which was apparently lying on the ground somewhere, after Corey tripped and fell down. So I can’t help but ask, is it considered a crime to run with a case of beer? Kind of like the unwritten rule about running with scissors?
Now, if Corey had been running with scissors, most mothers could see why it might be a good idea to try to stop him. But I’m still trying to wrap my mind around the potential danger posed by running with a case of beer. But from what I understand, at the point Officer Josse made contact with Corey he wasn’t running, and he wasn’t carrying the beer or anything else. He was lying on the ground, trying to catch his breath. So what did Officer Josse do? And why did he do it? Did Corey attack him, or did he attack Corey? If so, why? If he was attempting to make an arrest, what was the basis for the arrest? Or was he just trying to mix it up with Corey? Was there any history between Officer Josse and Corey? Did Officer Josse have something against Corey? What were his motives?
At this point, one of the problems we’ve got is that Officer Josse was the only surviving eye witness about what happened from that point on. He was out of range of his dash cam, and had proceeded without backup, so no other officers were on scene. But what about audio? What would the audio tell us? Unfortunately, we don’t know because MCSD doesn’t want us to know. MCSD has a protective order seeking to prevent the public (and snoopy columnists) from getting “too much” information. Oh well, that doesn’t stop me from asking questions. Unfortunately, in this, like most situations, MCSD’s primary mode of operation seems to be just to simply ignore questions, especially the hard ones. At this point the track record has become pretty clear; we’ve seen county officials ignore hard questions before. Openness and public transparency aren’t part of the picture.
So this is a question I’ve had for a long time. If an officer doesn’t have probable cause to make an arrest, but he insists on doing it anyway, what is the arrestee legally obligated to do? Is the arrestee required to submit, regardless of possible lack of probable cause, or lack of justification for the arrest? What if Officer Josse wasn’t attempting to make an arrest, but was simply attacking and assaulting Corey? Because Officer Josse was a law enforcement officer, did that mean that Corey had no right to act in self-defense? If there wasn’t any probable cause to make an arrest, wouldn’t it have been better characterized as an assault?
So, if Corey was completely unarmed (except with a case of beer), and was assaulted without cause by an armed police officer, what was he supposed to do? Is it really true that he’s just supposed to put his hands behind his back so that he can be beaten, handcuffed, and taken to jail? For what? Resisting arrest? Or, resisting assault? Or, is there no such thing as assault by a police officer? If one un-badged citizen starts hitting another unprovoked, that’s assault. If a peace officer does it, is it just another “arrest”? What if Corey felt like he was in danger of serious bodily injury or death? Would a different standard apply to him than to the officer? So, so many questions.
Sorry, but these questions only raise more questions. Even if we give Officer Josse the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was making a legitimate arrest, if other officers were on their way, why did Officer Josse attempt to make the arrest by himself? Under such circumstances, aren’t officers supposed to wait for backup to help prevent exactly what happened? Have you seen the pictures of Corey Kanosh? What officer in his right mind would try to arrest him alone? So, so many unanswered questions about why Officer Josse did what he did.
Anyway, we do know that Officer Josse says that at some point he became fearful that Corey might kill him with his bare hands. This of course isn’t entirely unbelievable; have you seen Corey? He was a big guy. But Officer Josse knew that already, so perhaps a better question would be, why would any cop put himself in a position where he was basically in mortal combat with Corey Kanosh? Really, what did Officer Josse think would happen? If he jumped on Corey and started wrestling with him, what was Corey supposed to do? Who provoked the situation? Did Corey? Who was the aggressor? Who escalated the encounter? Who was the responsible, sober, supervising adult? So was Corey responsible for putting Officer Josse in a position that he claims he ultimately feared for his life? Or was Officer Josse responsible for putting himself in that situation? Why did he do it? How could it have been prevented or avoided?
Despite Officer Josse’s best efforts, apparently he wasn’t able to keep Corey on the mat. Was Officer Josse a Millard High School wrestler? If not, maybe Corey was. Maybe that explains it. Or maybe they both were. In any event, Officer Josse has claimed that Corey stood up and started to choke him. Maybe, despite Officer Josse’s best efforts to wrestle an intoxicated Native American and keep him on the ground, Corey was still able to stand up; in that case, if you were the officer, what would you do? Keep coming back for more? Help, including a dog, was on its way. Why wouldn’t you just back off and wait for reinforcements? Was it ego? Was it determination to take Corey down alone? For what? Who was Corey endangering at that point? If, once Officer Josse figured out that he wasn’t going to win a wresting match, what if he had retreated from Corey? Who would have been endangered at that point? Was Corey endangering himself? Was he endangering anyone else?
Again, have you seen the pictures of Corey Kanosh? It’s one thing to get in a friendly high school wrestling match, with a referee present to keep things under control, etc. But why would anyone be crazy enough to engage in mortal, hand-to-hand combat with Corey Kanosh, with life and death on the line? It would probably be about like taking on a bear. Of course, I can envision scenarios where that might be justified, but was this one of them? Again, who was Corey endangering? What, if any, reason was there to set any and all potential benefits of not attempting to take on the bear, and engage him at all cost?
Once Officer Josse made all the decisions that put himself in that situation, though, I’m not going to rule out the possibility that he might have had little choice but to use lethal force to survive. Once he had made the decision to corner a bear by himself — once he had made the decision to provoke the bear and make him mad by attacking him and attempting to wrestle him; once he made the decision to stick around and fight a big, stout, cornered mad bear — at some point in order to survive the natural consequences of his own decision-making he might have had no choice but to shoot. Does that make it right? Does that make any of it right? It does not appear that the county attorney even considered, let alone cared about any of this when he found the shooting was justified. That doesn’t appear to be all the county attorney didn’t consider.
Now let’s go back to square one. At a certain point Officer Josse had succeeded in getting Marlene Pikyavit’s car, driven by Dana Harnes, off the highway and out of commission entirely, essentially removing any danger to Mr. Harnes, Corey, other motorists, and himself. The car was immobilized, high-centered on rocks in the foothills outside the Kanosh Reservation Cemetery. At that point, Officer Josse was faced with some very fundamental decisions. What should he do? At that point, most officers would undoubtedly try to have a discussion with whoever they had been pursuing. Should he attempt to do that alone? But the more fundamental question at that point was, should he attempt to address his concerns with the driver or the passenger?
Now we get down to a potentially important fact that I haven’t mentioned up to this point. Mr. Dana Harnes, the driver, was a white man. He was Corey’s friend, but he was also engaged to Corey’s sister, Marlee Kanosh, and the father of her soon to be born child. Corey, on the other hand, was a very brown, Native American, passenger. At that point, if you’re the officer, you’ve got a fundamental decision to make. Do you address the white driver, or the Native American passenger? If you choose to address the Native American passenger, instead of the white driver, what are your motivations? Where do they come from? What are you trying to accomplish? And that raises all kinds of questions about racial bias, prejudice and discrimination. Is there any other reasonable explanation for why Officer Josse would choose to pursue Corey, as the passenger, instead of Dana, as the driver? If so, what is that explanation?
Lots of people tell me there are plenty of officers on the MCSD police force who agree with the old adage often expressed in some quarters during the taming of the American West to the effect that, “the only good Indian is a dead Indian.” In fact, with reference to Corey Kanosh himself, it has been reported that Mr. Ed Phillips and Mr. John Kimball have both stated on multiple occasions something to the effect that, “we should have killed the black-hearted bastard in the chicken coop when we had the chance.”
Now even more questions: When the early Mormon settlers deprived Corey’s Native American ancestors of their lives, liberty and pursuit of happiness, including their lands, water, and all the resources they had relied upon for their lives, livelihoods, and survival, did those early Mormon Settlers have an arrogant racial and morally superior attitude that caused them to scoff at the very thought that they were doing anything wrong, or that they should do anything to make things right, based on what they had done and what they had taken from the Native Americans?
Does that same arrogant racial and morally superior attitude exist today? Is that what causes the current Mormons in charge to scoff at the very thought that anyone did anything wrong in depriving Corey Kanosh of his life and liberty (and his mother of her property), or that they should do anything to make things right with his family?
From what I understand, MCSD has refused to even consider returning Marlene Pikayavit’s car to her. Despite multiple inquiries and attempts to secure release of the car, neither MCSD nor the county attorney’s office have even demonstrated the respect and common courtesy to tell her what to do to get it back. Why?
At this point, one of Marlene Pikyavit’s biggest regrets in life was making that ill-fated 9-1-1 call, putting her false trust in MCSD and how they would handle the situation.
Parting thoughts and questions: What happened after Corey was shot? Why did he die? I’ll address those questions with even more questions in the next installment.
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48 thoughts on “COREY KANOSH, Part 2: the Oh-So Regrettable 9-1-1 Call — PAHVANT COUNTY GRAPEVINE — by Delta Rose”
This is getting good.
Anyone who questions anything about MCSD is a POS. It’s true, POS is a term used by all kinds of people, of all colors. The common theme is that they all view people as objects — pieces of shit — that don’t deserve any other consideration. Doesn’t it make you feel good to know how many LEOs view, treat and refer to other people that way? Sometimes we think it’s only guys like the cop in Albuquerque who shot the homeless guy, but Penny has confirmed that attitude is alive and well here too — and she wasn’t even referring to the “criminals” she is obviously so sick of dealing with. She was referring to Delta Rose and the PP, just because she doesn’t like what they have to say, and views them as POS for expressing their views. It really helps instill confidence in local law enforcement. Rather than squarely addressing the issues that have been raised, the best they can muster is pathetic name calling. Really instills confidence.
So if I am not a LEO then I am a POS? This gives a deeper understanding as you point out, that as a citizen in Millard County, I am just an object to MCSD. It does not make me feel good to know that I am objectified as nothing compared to them. This is how Officer Josse viewed Corey Kanosh on October 15, 2012. How Sheriff Dekker responded to Mrs. Pikyavit. Objects who are not even human. Unbelievable. Many of us are highly educated individuals who have a degree far beyond their few months of academy training. However, because I do not have a badge and uniform I am less than a LEO? Maybe the state of Utah should re-evaluate how my tax dollars are spent to pay those who view us as POS. The amount of money listed at http://www.utahsright.com/salaries.php?city=millard_county&query= . Is beyond belief due to Sheriff Dekker and his lack of public response concerning the actions of his department. I guess my next approach would be to know exactly what I pay in taxes to MCSD at the city, county, and state level to MCSD and file an appeal. This individual POS is tired of the lack of concern for citizens Sheriff Dekker, but please continue to view me as “less” than you and your department Millard County Sheriff.
Penny, could you help me understand what this statement means? To me, I see concerned citizens. Who have given very valid points on this article? It would seem to me, as a member of this small community that we want answers from Sheriff Dekker and how he has handled the situations over the past few years at MCSD. You are a tax payer of those who serve you, do you not feel a need to know? Please give me specific instances on this page, which “trash” MCSD, as this is a very broad statement that you have made. I do not know directly what the Kanosh family is facing. However, this article opens a lot of questions to our community about MCSD. Some of us truly care for the welfare of our family and the protection that law enforcement brings. In watching the video of Marlene Pikyavit, as a mother myself, I am truthfully brokenhearted for this mother. In going back to my previous statement, “Some of us truly care for the welfare of our family and the protection that law enforcement brings.” Marlene was asking for protection from law enforcement in my POV. She was left with a situation that no mother should ever deal with after calling law enforcement. She was not treated with respect after the incident, as Sheriff Dekker did not meet with her, to provide any legit reason as to why the situation escalated that caused the death of her son, after her call for protection. As a mother in this community, with two sons of my own, I am appalled at the manner in which Sheriff Dekker treats a woman in his position of power in Millard County. Since we are not talking about race, which seem to be a sensitive subject and “worn out” as you stated. As a resident of Millard County, neither Dekker nor Josse will be receiving my vote for sheriff, they have yet to give the public answers to their actions, so you feel the need to defend them by accusing us all of trashing MCSD, let alone being POS.
For many of you who only view LEO’s as fine officers of the law. Get over your narrow minded view. There are countless cover-ups in this department and others across the US. To believe your officers in MCSO are exempt, just shows how small minded you are. Believing that the race card is worn out is a great example. If there is not a race card,( which there is) then let’s look at social class status. Your fine LEO prey on those who they feel are inferior citizens in the community. You can call us all POS, because someone is finally speaking up for those who are objects of exploitation of your tax dollars. How dare Todd McFarlane, allow me to voice my opinion. Your small minded thoughts are clearly stated. You do not have to post or read articles on this website, nobody is forcing you to do so, unless you are an employee of MCSO, who frequently change the whole direction of the article, like you have by directing anger towards the community who’s actions are not perfect like you see yourself. Let’s hope your self-righteous judgment of others helps you continue to live a positive life. May the Kanosh family find peace among the bigots of self-judgment.
I want to stay thanks to the people who have expressed some sympathy and support for Corey’s family, and the Native American perspective. Some of you sound sincere. This is the first time we have seen or heard much of that. Most people just ignore us and keep their mouths shut. So thanks.
Lunatic, if you question how Native Americans really feel, and how we have been treated, I question whether you know any Native Americans as well as you claim. I also question how open minded you are. Wonderland, thanks for taking the time to crack the books and sharing what you found.
To everyone else, maybe some day the tables will be turned, and you’ll get a chance to find out what it’s really like. It will be interesting to see what you have to say then.
If you want to talk about double standards, compare what happens when the Kimballs are DUI. With Corey Kanosh and the natives it’s manhunts, manhandling and deadly force. With the Kimballs it’s secret rescue missions and coverups. That’s a sheriff issue, and it has been for a long time.
Haha! Exactly! C’mon people quit turning your cheek to fact and truth!
Ummm your dumb!
Ummm isn’t Josse half Hispanic. . . So not a “white cop”.
Josse is half hispanic???? Just like I am 1/4 native. Wow…good way to side step the article because your employer told you to do so.
Nope not a cop,have never worked in law enforcement. In fact have had my fair share of run ins with Millard co officers both good and not so great. The fact is it could have gone a number of ways Josse could have stayed with the driver and vehicle and delt with Corey later after he was back home and sober, Because the call was made on him for drunk driving and taking his mom’s car probably joy riding at the least (I’m guessing). Corey could have really gotten the upper hand and left Josse our cold or possibly dead and would have been faced with whatever charges that would bring and more than likely some serious prison time. The point is a life was lost due decisions made on both sides, i can’t determine who if anyone was in the wrong. I do know if i was in a life or death situation i would do everything in my power make it home which i feel that both were trying do. Every fight had a winner and a loser and it would have been wonderful if in this case Corey had just ended up in cuffs with some minor charges, And everyone got go home or even better just had a good time at home with friends and family around instead of choosing to take the car and leave. I hate that these types of situations happen i wish comfort to everyone this has directly affected i wish there was a way this could just be made better.
The biggest point everyone seems to be missing is that a mother thought she could trust local law enforcement. She thought they would act reasonably. She knew her son and the guy he was with had made bad decisions and mistakes. That’s why she made the call. But she expected a reasonable approach. She thought she could trust the Millard County Sheriff’s Department to do the right thing, and exercise some common sense. But they violated her trust. They violated OUR trust, and all they want to do is make excuses. Instead of learning from their mistakes, they deny any wrongdoing and continue to do the same things. When are they going to start getting serious about regaining the public’s trust?
The race card is worn out…
This is a tragic situation. A situation that was created and started by who? MCSD? No!
And for the record ‘P.O.S.’ Wasnt coined by the police. I’m pretty sure it’s used by Americans, Mexicans, native Americans, African Americans and so on. But nice try!
I’m often amused by the fact that people get in trouble with the law and then blame It on someone else. Usually the police. (I.e. The ‘kids’ that broke into the swimming pool) Really! Now the poor little juvenile delinquents are afraid? Wake up!! That’s not ok! And then you have a POS like ‘delta Rosie pants’ that likes to hide behind his goats, prey on people’s tragedy and write stupid articles, because he has nothing better to do!
Penny, you sound worn out too. I feel sorry for you. Like Gary, maybe its time for you to try something different, and quit blaming everyone else too.
For Whites they think the race card is worn out. For some of the rest of us structural racism is a daily reality. Too bad you don’t get a chance to see that that’s like.
Excuse me, Penny but, do you know any facts? or do you just go around spewing venom where ever you go? you have no compassion and no tact and I am thinking a very one sided view on life. what a shame. its people like you that just piss me off. You do not know the facts, you do not know anything except what you have heard, (from gossip I am sure), and from what you have read, which as we all know is very little in fact and a lot in speculation.
Haha Linda….. This is the biggest gossip column in Millard County! You know the facts because you were there…. or you’re on the band wagon of trashing MCSD!
Jill… If you feel the need to, pity yourself
Seriously Penny? Gossip. We are not talking about people’s private lives, which is gossip. Clearly you do not know the difference. We are talking about public paid servants. As a tax payer, I deserve to know the truth of any actions that MCSD has with the public. It is called Transperancy. MCSD has not been forthcoming with answers to the case with Corey Kanosh. WHY? Because they have a Blue Code of Silence to the public that they serve. I am glad that you continue to support the cover-ups, and do not want to know both sides of the story. Because us POS want to hear both sides of the story, but MCSD has yet to come forth with documented facts or a dash cam video of this case. The Kanosh family deserves answers. This is not about you Penny!! Given your haughty demeanor it is very apparent that you work for MCSD.
ravenlunatic, If the story as presented here is correct, you left out one very important element…WHY?…WHY? would a lone officer get involved in a wrestling match with a man much larger than himself…WHY didn’t he wait for back-up? Adrenaline rush? Sorry, LE are supposed to be able to control themselves even though they might not be able to control others. If the officer was jumped, I could understand better his need for lethal force, but he shouldn’t have been close enough to be jumped. As the story reported here stands, I can’t understand. What a mess. Marlene, I am so sorry for you and your family’s loss and pray for a spirit of comfort to attend you and hope for the truth to come out in the further investigation.
Wendy I have to agree with Ravenlunatic, it is very common for a suspect to be chased down by the leading officer, they can’t wait for back up. There is something not being high lighted in this story and that is, when a mother calls in and says that her son is possibly drunk driving and she is concerned for the safety of her son and those on the road, that is a serious matter, and the fact that after the officers tried to pull over the car they ran. That is a huge red flag for an officer that something isn’t right, if someone is willing to run from a police officer they don’t want to be caught because they are doing something wrong or have done something wrong. YOU DON”T START A POLICE CHASE. Now as far as what happened after the car was stopped seems to get hazey and I don’t know what exactly happened after that. But up to that point Officer Josse was doing what a cop is asked to do, he was chasing a fleeing suspect. He may have been over his head by the size of Mr. Kanosh but he was doing his job, you don’t get to pick who your suspects are. There are so many missing pieces to this puzzle, and I am not picking sides (MCSO or The Kanosh family) nor am I going against either one. I hope to hear more about the case someday.
Anyone who has been roughed up by cops knows there may be plenty of reasons to run, whether you have done anything wrong or not. A year ago some kids who were working on the roof of the swimming pool in Fillmore, and had a key to get in. They went there one night to swim. They weren’t hurting anything. But some of Millard County’s finest showed up and arrested them at gunpoint and manhandled them. These were just kids, really doing nothing wrong, but they were arrested at gunpoint, roughed up and treated as badly as any criminal. After they were handcuffed, they got kicked and thrown around just for good measure. After an experience or two like that, what would you do? Just because someone runs doesn’t mean they’re guilty. Maybe they’ve just had bad experiences with cops, and want to put as much distance between them as possible. If you had experienced something like that and thought you could outrun the cops, what would you do? The problem is, cops love to chase people. It gives them a purpose in life. Many of them live for the chase.
Well the why is that it is the officers duty and obligation to pursue any fleeting suspect. Now i don’t know if Josse was simply attempting to detain Corey after he fell or if there was a tackle type situation, regardless Corey fought the situation and no matter officer or civilian alike if you are being “choked out” you will and should defend yourself. It is extremely tragic that this situation was pushed to the point where the bad decisions made resulted in Corey’s death, i can’t begin to imagine the loss his family has and will continue to endure, nor the pain and sorrow that Josse feels every single day because of the way everything played out. What a horrid and tragic series of events.
Wonderland, so you’re a cop too. And you say cops have a duty and obligation to pursue any fleeting suspect, no matter what. I’ll try some cop talk here. What you’re saying is that any time a person runs that is probable cause to make an arrest. Where does it say that? Please show me where it says that. Since your a cop too I’ll challenge you like I did Lunatic to show me the law that makes it a crime. And please show me where it says that if someone sees a cop and starts running, a cop always has a duty and obligation to chase him down and make an arrest. Is that a law? A department policy? An unwritten rule? Is that what you’re taught in police school?
You say Corey fought the situation. Does anyone have a right to defend themself when their attacked by a cop? Is that always a crime too? I’m still waiting to see who can explain WHY the officer chased the passenger who was an Indian, instead of the driver who was a white man. Who can answer that question? Isn’t that illegal too?
Proud, in re-reading this you made me wonder if there is a law that states fleeing provides probable cause for arrest, i mean I’ve seen it as million times but is it actually justifiable to give chase so i looked it up and this is what i found…
Utah Criminal Code
Offenses Against the Administration of Government
Failure to stop at the command of a law enforcement officer.
76-8-305.5. Failure to stop at the command of a law enforcement officer.
A person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor who flees from or otherwise attempts to elude a law enforcement officer:
(1) after the officer has issued a verbal or visual command to stop;
(2) for the purpose of avoiding arrest; and
(3) by any means other than a violation of Section 41-6a-210 regarding failure to stop a vehicle at the command of a law enforcement officer.
Enacted by Chapter 288, 2005 General Session
This sounds like yes if some one chooses to run away it is probable cause for an arrest, not the use of deadly force in cases like Dillon’s which recently happened up north. But if Corey did indeed have a hold of Josse and was in effect choking him i can only assume that changed things. Hope this is helpful.
But why did he go after Corey and not the driver? that is and will always be my question. If Corey was running away, they should of let him go and go after the driver, especially because “for whatever reason” you seem to believe that he was an aggressive drunk. why “being alone” would you go after him? I am sorry folks but this young man lost his life to an over zealous, gun toting, out to prove something, prejudice officer of the law! the only bad decisions were the ones the supposed fully trained officer of the law made. He was trained to wait for back up, he was trained to subdue the Driver first, he was trained in one on one combat, and he had a Tazer with him, so it is in my honest opinion that the bad decisions were only made by the one who was trained to know better. he could of tazed him and stopped him, cuffed him and went after the other person, but nope, the officer chose, (CHOSE) to shoot Corey, he made that decision, and lets face it, it was an all around bad decision, take a look around folks, officers of the law are killing unarmed men and women all over the United States, using excessive force, and bully tactics. This has to stop! they are here to Serve and Protect the People. not maim and kill and destroy countless lives, for no other reason than because they can!
wendy – “as the story is reported here” in this self-confessed gossip column……exactly. “if” is a really big word.
here in this car, is a man who – while driving drunk, (an illegal act and one I hope, as a driver with loved ones who also drive, is pursued by any officer anywhere) – when an officer attempted to pull him over, ran. I’m sure he thought ‘oh I can lose this officer….there is only one’. so he made a bad decision. maybe they discussed it inside the car and it was “they” who made a bad decision – but regardless the decision to run away was made. that act alone gave the officer the duty to pursue. .
then, proceeding on the course of running away, the car became high centered on some rocks, and the occupants left the vehicle and fled on foot. bad decision again…and again, that provides the officer with the duty of pursuit, which he did. this officer now has two possible criminals (there was a reason they opted to run away) maybe armed, maybe dangerous to locate. one he chases, so presumably in front of him…and one somewhere around…..the vehicle has both doors open so apparently both individuals (driver and passenger) got out and presumably continued to flee on foot. so this one officer is in pusuit of two and cannot possibly follow them both unless they chose to run together (which would not be likely nor common).
then, and I don’t know that this is accurate, but let’s assume it is….when the individual the officer followed “falls” and “is just lying there trying to catch his breath”…..somehow, perhaps it was indeed his size advantage, he ends up with his hands around the officer’s neck, choking the life out of him. another really bad decision in the course of a very short time span. and the officer – before he lost consciousness and was left dead – pulled his gun and shot. one is forced to see that when faced with the choice to stop compounding bad decision with bad decision, or make another bad decision, corey opted to make that bad decision.
it is a tragedy. and one that rocked this community. of course a mother will always regret the call that lead to this sad happening, but it was a call made from a good place and with good intent…and one made out of love, and an attempt to protect a child. there is no fault there….only a mother’s love and concern. but this officer also has a mother and kids and wife…and it is also unfair to insist that an officer is corrupt and unfit simply because he got into a situation that required lethal force. it’s not something a man does lightly on the whole, and I’m confident that it was not done liglhtly in this case. the reality of it is, that when one does something illegal, no matter how slight, it puts them on the wrong side of a line, and things can and often do, go bad from there. in this case it certainly did…leaving two families damaged and with something to live with for the rest of their lives, and a community torn.
Lunatic, I’m going to call you out on your comment “it is a tragedy and one that rocked this community.” What community are you talking about? Are you part of the Native American Community? If not, don’t even pretend that Corey’s death “rocked” anyone else in Millard County. It barely registered a blip with anyone else. To most people the unstated sentiment seemed to be “goodbye and good riddance.” I seriously doubt it did anything to rock your world.
Who is insisting that that the individual cop is corrupt and unfit? Yes, there are plenty who feel like he made serious mistakes, but everyone makes mistakes. The real corruption is in a sheriff and a department that are out of control. They have failed to properly educate and train officers. They have fostered and encouraged the kind of attitudes that lead to these kinds of incidents. They don’t do anything to fix the problem. They spend all their time and effort covering their asses. That is where the real corruption and the real problem is.
And gotta love your comment “the reality of it is, that when one does something illegal, no matter how slight, it puts them on the wrong side of the line.” Based on your comment, it’s pretty clear you’re part of the system, and part of the problem. That’s why you think the way you do and say the things you do. Because anyone who does something illegal, no matter how slight, has crossed the line, you view everyone else to be a criminal. Everyone but cops and their friends and family. The problem is, they cross the line too, but that doesn’t count.
It’s pretty tough to try to coverup the background and attitude of someone who claims to be an expert on officer’s duty to pursue, and what people normally do when they when they’re fleeing from cops on foot. The other giveaway is your refusal to admit this cop made any mistakes or bad decisions. Classic response. No one is arguing that Corey may have made some bad decisions, but you act like all the mistakes are one sided. While you have had plenty to say about Corey choking the cop, what about the cop attacking Corey? Who was the aggressor? What about the decision to try to do all this alone?
Based on your law enforcement background, since you’re an expert about all this, please answer this question. Would you have handled it the same way? What would have happened if he had waited for help?
And I really want to have a look at whatever law makes it illegal for a passenger in a situation like that to run. Can you please give a reference? Is that a crime that justifies the use of deadly force?
I grew up here and there were several NA’s that were my friends. I grew up around McKay (whom I dearly loved) and my kids grew up with friends too. they are family to corey, and as such I sympathized when corey made bad decisions all the way through his life. this was family to my friends – and I’m not alone. so when I say this rocked the community….I mean the community. this type of tragedy doesn’t leave many in a community untouched. so doubt all you want – you don’t know my feelings, or anyone else’s.
I don’t drive drunk. I try not to break the law. I have never been to prison. sometimes I speed and I don’t always wear my seatbelt. does that make me “part of the system” and “part of the problem” because I try to be a conscientious citizen and NOT put myself or others at danger? I can honestly say that I don’t even know more than maybe a couple of the MCSD officers….let alone their families. I’ve heard their names of course…but I couldn’t ‘pick them out of a line-up’ (haha).
but I respect the fact that we need law to live as a society. laws are made to protect people. without predefined laws, society would turn into chaos – for every individual will only think and work to achieve his/her personal goals, through fair or foul means; no matter what is their affect may be on the people around them.
you want to make this into an “us” and “them” argument and it shouldn’t be. I didn’t say that mistakes weren’t made. I believe they were made on both sides. there’s a thousand ‘what if’ scenarios in every situation – and it’s always easy to see what might have been a better course in hindsight.
I wouldn’t have handled it at all – as I am not a cop I would not be in this type of situation….and if I’m running there would have to be something awfully big chasing me. I have no “law enforcement” background. the points I made are simple common sense any citizen would know. and common sense combined with previous experience of watching corey (especially when he was drunk) tells me that after he made the decision to run… he also made the decision to turn and fight. he had that warrior nature. and once that decision is made (and here is the incident that initiates the use of deadly force) it creates a life or death situation.
I’m sorry it happened. I’m sorry for both the families. and I’m sorry to see a people that I have respected my whole life fostering this racial hate attitude. I’ve never seen it before and it makes me sad to see it now. the NA’s have a great and honorable heritage. THAT is what should be remembered and taught. not hatred and suspicion.
While I have read and agree with many of your comments, I respectfully and completely disagree with your entire first paragraph. Which community do I belong to? I am a member of the community that cried for the death of a young man, the one that cried for a mother’s loss, the one that was “rocked” and shocked by the things that were happening in OUR community. You choose to keep them separate, I choose to see us as all God’s children. Don’t judge me and I won’t judge you. I am sorry but you do not have to be Native American to have felt the pain from this situation no matter who was at fault. If you have to put a label on me I guess it would be white but my beloved Ojibwa Great grandmother would disagree. Apparently Prejudice is color blind.
Ms. Rose: You have presented some interesting questions that should be thought about by the readers and I would like to submit a couple more for you to examine to see if you can come up with the answers. You may already have the answers and will put them into print in your next article. First question is that after the shooting I had read in another publication that the Kanosh family and the Native Americans had sought a lawsuit against the MCSD and Josse. There had been protests at the MCSD office in Fillmore over the shooting. Has there been a lawsuit filed and if so where does it stand at this time? Not trying to justify why you have not received any answers for your questions, but is it possible that no information can be given out if there is an active lawsuit out there and the MCSD does not want the information out there to the public? Second question is that I either had heard or read at the time that Josse may have Tased Corey during the fight and that it was not effective to end the fight. ( That might be because Corey was not handcuffed behind his back like another incident involving Josse.) If that is the case was that after the fight had started or just because Josse felt the need to use that type of force on a person who was just running away from the problem at hand? Seems to be a lot of head scratching questions out there that the answers are being avoided.
Rebel Rouser, Dale Josse tased Mr. Finlinson while he was handcuffed? After he was already shot? This is the candidate for Sheriff, correct?
In answering your first question, I did not refer to a Finlinson in my comment so I can only assume that you have knowledge of the incident in which I was referring to. It had been reported that Josse did tase this person in March of 2014 I believe, after a traffic stop and arrest in which the person was handcuffed when tased. In response to your second question, I am not aware of Josse shooting this person while handcuffed by a firearm, but was shot with a taser. Responding to your third question, you are correct that this Josse is the same “little” person that is pounding his chest to be Sheriff.
So where does that leave us in the Sheriff’s race which is now the only remaining political race in Millard County? So we’ve got a choice between a sheriff who some think is a good man (but a crappy sheriff), who does nothing to fix the problems and continually covers for his corrupt department, versus a cop who has his own issues, but apparently has enough balls to stand up and challenge the sheriff. Where does that leave us?
Looking from the outside in. 1st sheriff Dekker has issues with informing the public.. Why? 2nd He is a man that only shows up every 4 years. Why? 3rd He does not have the balls to confront issues that happen and actually address and de-escalate issues to some families or even apologize… Why? 4th I have heard him as a person to maintain a grudge with employees and public.. Why? 5th I have been informed he likes to promote employees for what I will call a suck up program.. Why? 6th He does not maintain a proper physical fitness or work ethic standard for his employees.. Why? why should Sheriff Dekker maintain a disabled office..I hear of these issues through the rumor mill, are they true? I would assume yes as a taxpayer pissed off and looking in…People forget the sheriff and its office are public servants to the people of Millard county, it’s a pretty sad operation I have been informed it’s a broken department and when lack of work is seen its actually due to lack of respect for Sheriff Dekker and his administration … This is my opinion from sitting back and observing only. Now you should make your own opinion.. God bless us all!!
Thank you for clarification.I do not have any information on Mr. Finlinson, but this is such a small town you hear parts of what goes on. MCSD has never come forward to give a public press conference on any incidents.They do not see their obligation to the public,who pays them, to keep them informed. Just like you I am a concerned citizen. Dale Josse has done enough harm to the people of this community, by being in a position of TRUST and abusing that power. I am FEARFUL of who will be next in this small community as a target of his uncontrolled anger and use of DEADLY force.
You are a P.O.S. Hiding behind Delta Rose like a little girl!
Actions and consequences! That’s what happened here. This kid had a rap sheet a mile long, so it wasn’t the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd encounter he had with the police. Stop blaming everyone else for a bad choice someone makes. So sad that a concerned mother had to even call the authorities for any reason! Last time I checked its illegal to drink and drive! What if an innocent person had been killed by the drinking individuals? Over the racist excuses! Grow up. Be responsible or be prepared to be accountable! The choice is yours!
Penny, glad to see that you too, feel more than comfortable with the role of judge, jury and executioner. Are you a LEO?
It looks like what you’re trying to say is that after a certain point, after a certain number of encounters, if the rap sheet is long enough, people waive their rights, and cops are entitled to just do whatever they want, without even bothering with the justice system.
You really ought to read Watchman’s comment about how constitutional rights apply to even the most inferior of beings, and that we should be willing to spill every last drop of our blood to protect those rights.
But you’re right, it is illegal to drink and drive. And there should be consequences for doing that. Was Corey driving? And should those consequences include getting shot?
I think Penny pretty much just proved just about everything PP has been saying about this.
LE no doubt. You can spot that attitude from 100 miles away.
Class act Penny. Real impressive. . . Not! Clearly, there were a series of bad choices here, made by several people. Why shouldn’t EVERYONE be held accountable for their actions? What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
So you feel that you think you know this person enough to state that he had, and I quote ” a rap sheet a mile long” how do you know that?, did you know him personally?, did you know his mother?, were you a friend of the family? No I am sure you are not, you are like so many others who just have a problem with anyone who is not white, and believe all the crap and gossip you hear because you have nothing else better do to than to believe the venom you spew! You are the one who needs to Grow Up! and know what the hell you are talking about before you make your dumb ass comments, I wonder,.. If it had been your child that was killed, how you would feel if someone said to you what you so cruelly said in you comment.
For those who are unfamiliar with Cop Talk, POS stands for “Piece of Shit” — which is how many cops view and refer to almost everyone but themselves. That alone should give you a pretty good idea of the kind of mentality we’re dealing with here. There are exceptions to the rule, but the trend doesn’t bode well. Accountability is a two way street. Cops are not exempt from the need for accountability.
Penny, it is illegal to drink and drive. So why is it ok for a cop to do it and get away with it? I am asking because I have witnessed with my own 2 eyes an officer off duty( that resides here in delta) buying beer at Harts when he was obviously already feeling pretty darn good and get into his side by side or whatever it was and drive off. So how is that ok?
I’VE BEEN IN SOME SITUATIONS LIKE THIS, BUT THEY DID NOT SHOOT ME LIKE THEY DO NOW. BACK THEN THE OFFICERS DID THINK BEFORE THEY PULLED THE TRIGGER. WHAT I DON’T LIKE ABOUT THEM NOW IS THAT THEY KEEP THE OFFICER ON THE FORCE LIKE NOTHING HAPPENED, AND THEY GET AWAY WITH THEIR CRIMES THAT THEY DO TO OTHERS. MOSTLY TO NATIVE AMERICAN MEN THEY SAID “THE ONLY GOOD NATIVE IS A DEAD ONE”. IT HAS BEEN TOLD TO ME BY OFFICERS THROUGH MY LIFE. AND HERE MY MOTHER TOLD ME TO ALWAYS RESPECT THEM. BUT BACK IN THE 70s TO 80’s I WAS ARRESTED AND CHOKED BY AN OFFICER WHEN I WAS ALREADY HANDCUFFED AND BEING SEAT BELTED IN THE 4-WHEEL. TO TOP IT OFF HE WAS CHOKING ME WITH HIS HAND. I TOLD HIM TO LET UP ON THE PRESSURE ON MY THROAT. AND WHAT DOES HE SAY TO ME? SHUT UP YOU F____G INDIAN. AND IN COURT I TOLD THEM WHAT HE SAID TO ME AND THAT’S WHY I GAVE HIM A BLACK EYE IN THE JAIL HOUSE. BUT I WANT TO SAY WHY ARE THE PUBLIC LETTING OUR SO CALLED “FINEST OF THIS LAND, GETTING AWAY WITH SHOOTING FOR NO REAL REASON. AND CITIZENS LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT. AND HOW WOULD THEY FEEL IF THE CITIZENS START TO SEE MORE OF THEM KILLED “FOR NO GOOD REASON?”
THIS IS WHY I HAVE COME TO FEEL THE WAY I DO ABOUT OUR LAW-IN-FORCEMENT TODAY. MANY OF THEM R EVIL.
AND MY SAD FEELINGS GO OUT TO THE KANOSH FAMILY. R.I.P. COREY.
PLEASE WATCH YOUTUBE VIDEO: Corey Kanosh’s Story by Olivearose
I am not quite sure how to reconcile this account, and the quote below, with what has happened over the last 150+ years, but here it is.
On July 24, 1852, the 5th Anniversary of the 24th of July, in addition to all the other festivities in Salt Lake City, 24 young Native American men (boys) were baptized and ordained to the Aaronic Priesthood.
As part of the the festivities, Elder George A. Smith gave a very lengthy speech. At the end of his speech, this is what he said:
This was reported on November 20, 1852, in Vol. XIV, Page 614 of the Millenial Star.
Just because the spirit of prophecy exists among some of the people who lead or have led the LDS church, it does NOT mean that a majority of LDS people are necessarily even good enough to receive consistent guidance from the Holy Spirit. George A. Smith was giving guidance in hopes that someday the natives may fulfill the prophecy given by Christ to some people in the Americas around 1800 years before Elder Smith stated what you said (see The Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 21, https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/21?lang=eng ).
Mr. Phillips is as dishonest and corrupt as they come (based on personal experience). I can only imagine the legacy of crooked deputies he has left behind.